Add an option that allows a user not to upload their personal data (notes, prayers)to Logos' servers
Because of privacy concerns along murky copyright laws in the United States, I suggest that Logos to add an option that allows their user not to upload their personal data to Logos' servers.
I feel bad declining this, but realistically I don’t think it’s something we’re going to do anytime soon, and I want to free up the votes.
In the past two years the direction of most software has been towards the cloud, and even some users who were very uncomfortable with it in 2009 have expressed happiness with the convenience, mobile access, and ease of use.
It would be a lot of work and introduce many potential problems to implement selective cloud syncing, and we don’t plan it anytime soon.
If you still feel strongly about this you’re welcome to create a new issue and vote for it, but at this point I think it’s time to close this case and redistribute the votes.
NOTE: You can turn off Internet Use in the program settings, and get updates by ordering DVD’s on occasion.
steve williams commented
Please reconsider. Yes the direction is toward the cloud, but the direction is also to giving users the option of what gets uploaded, and gives a way to encrypt data at rest, and gives a way to purge from your servers. This is my favorite app, and I am commenting only because you are making a mistake on this issue. You need to enhance your ability to ensure privacy, instead of telling your customers they don't know what they are talking about.
John Duffy commented
I too feel that this should still be a live issue. While Bob is correct in stating that other software uses cloud computing a lot more recently, the point is still that users are offered the option of whether to use that or not for downloaded software. Logos does not give us an option unless we disconnect internet use completely for the program, which other software providers do not penalise us with as the only option.
Is Logos changing it's model from being downloaded and installed software, as it has been in the past, to a model that assumes that the user should consider it in the same way as Google Docs where the data resides primarily in the cloud? This whole matter has significant implications for on the security and privacy of users' data.
Also, the question as to whether the uploads of personal data are encrypted are not has still not been addressed as far as I can see. All cloud backup services that are worth their salt have upload/download encryption (often very strong encryption) as standard. Will this be implemented if it is already not the case? I could also ask the very important question as to whether the personal data is stored encrypted or unsecured on the Logos servers?
The issues of most importance for me are privacy and security of personal data and notes.
Removing this from the list, to free up votes, because it just isn't going to be done anytime soon is simply ignoring the voice of users. I hear your opinion on this, but I disagree and ask that you reconsider.
Tom Collinge commented
Bob, I still feel strongly about this, so I am going to create another request. As it has been said before, I should not have to pay more for Logos' resources simply because I do not want to have my data on Logos' servers.
@riw777: "someone else already owns the copyright because you did the work on their server" -- Google Apps doesn't own copyright to data you put in their system; see the first answer at http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=60762.
"Your answer is "trust me," but you aren't the issue, the cloud provider is, and you have little to no control over what terms the cloud provider sets." -- Logos doesn't use a "cloud provider"; we own and operate the servers that store sync data (we *are* "the cloud").
Bob, I would be open to discussing this over the phone, as well. Email me --it's easy enough to find my profile on the forum, and from there to find my email address.
I must register my EXTREMELY strong objection to this decision. I know you believe in the cloud with a religious fervor (an ironic situation, IMHO), but you need to get your eyes off the US centric market, and realize the future is walled gardens, not an open cloud, as you seem to think it is.
Second, this simply means that Logos will never, EVER, have any sort of real notes capability, because one of those things notes must be able to do is selectively synchronize to various places for privacy and for various other reasons. In fact, my seminary decided against going to Google apps specifically because of their license terms --who wants to do a lot of work on something to find out that someone else already owns the copyright because you did the work on their server? You can promise all day long that your cloud provider won't ever change to those sorts of terms, but those are just promises you can't enforce or control, which means you're promising things you can't deliver on.
If you're going to refuse to actually make the notes into a real note package, then turn instead to tighter integration with real note packages that do allow you to synchronize your notes where you like --OneNote, the product of the company that is convincing you that cloud is the future, already does allow you to selectively synchronize. Evernote does as well.
Your "solution," of turning off updates and ordering DVD's on occassion is a nonstarter. I don't want to not synchronize, I want to selectively synchronize the information I put into the system --because, ultimately, I own that information, not you. That's the bottom line, for me --that you don't respect my choice to do what I choose with my data. Your answer is "trust me," but you aren't the issue, the cloud provider is, and you have little to no control over what terms the cloud provider sets.
David Ames commented
And now with PB and copyrights: I can use a PB file under the fair use section but storing that PB on your server might cause YOU to violate US Copyright Law. [How will the Jury rule? You did not give us the option of not syncing our data therefore is it your fault or ours that the file is on the internet?] [How will forcing us to turn auto update off as the only way to not send our files look to the Jury?] I have not used Notes nor Prayer Lists but do they remind the user that the contents will be stored on your servers as in “WARNING THIS DATE WILL BE SAVED ON INTERNET SERVERS – DO YOU WANT TO SAVE THIS DATA?” [each time you save a Note or Prayer List?] [Does every Logos 4 user KNOW that their files are stored in the Cloud?] [The ideal is to have a flag on each and every file – we will accept all or none] [[And then we will need a way to back up our PB, Notes, Prayer List, Etc locally]] [[[this sounds a little HARSH – sorry but I could not figure out another way to get the point across]]]
John Duffy commented
Logos is really great software - I love it. But this option is a must for me, not because it helps me use the program, but because I highly value privacy. Bob's suggestion would just not be accepted for other (non-Christian) software packages. Privacy is not on a par with features, it is more important. No-one should presume that they can upload our private information without first specifically asking out permission. It should be opt-in, not opt-out by turning off all internet usage in the program and resorting back to hard media (DVDs).
Also, is the personal data encrypted when sent to/from Logos servers? This is especially important for those in persecuted countries where internet data is monitored.
Neil K commented
I'd also add sermons to that list. There is no reason why personal sermons cannot be toggled, yes - upload, no - don't.
There are several should-be "options" in Logos 4 that are not optional. This may be very difficult in your design, but it seems that a simple check box to sync the prayer lists would suffice. I expect you already have that feature in the program to limit the number of devices we can sync books to. Think of our prayer list as copy-protected.
Go ahead, change it to planned. We'd appreciate it.
Wes Crouch commented
With respect to the hard workers at Logos I must say that telling people who have used and continue to keep using Logos on their computers should have to take a step "back in time" by ordering new DVD's and keeping them stockpiled up in closet like we used to do.
I realize that something more pressing like missing features should have precedence however some would like to keep privacy in simple things like their prayer list, or sermon files, while still being able to easily update their files without having to place a new order when they finally hear of one that is available.
We aren't asking much just for the freedom to decide for ourselves what we want to do.
Matt Haferkamp commented
First of all thanks for making study time much more productive and fun!!! I can see where this helps make this a one user program, but you do allow an exception as with my self where my lovely wife and I both use it.(neither one of us have a job in the theology field) But if you can just keep the prayer lists from uploading, that would be enough for me, thanks!!
Robert Lutjens commented
I add my voice to Tom Collinge - Ordering DVDs for updates penalizes me by adding shipping costs.
Scott Dietrick commented
I think an option to sync to a flash drive (or even network drive) would be great. My note files get quite large and i'm not too keen on having them all uploaded to a server somewhere. Not necessarily because of privacy but for speed reasons and if i'm ever without internet (very possible).
Tom Collinge commented
Thanks riw777, I agree with you 100%
Bob, I do not believe that we, those of us who do not want our personal data on your servers, should be penalized (not having any updates, must by new books by DVD and have to pay shipping, etc...). We should have the option to "sync" our notes, layouts, etc...).
While it might be a low priority on your list, it is not on mine.
FYI... it is always faster and cheaper to get things correct the first time. It is much more difficult and expensive to correct/re-design items.
Sorry, Bob--I don't think this really completes the feature as requested. The request was for specific files or sets of information to be uploadable or not, based on user preferences, not to simply turn off all updates, and ask for DVDs.